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The Hauser Report: Wilder-Fury II in Perspective

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  • The Hauser Report: Wilder-Fury II in Perspective

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    By Thomas Hauser

    On Saturday night, February 22, at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, Tyson Fury knocked out Deontay Wilder in round seven of a rematch of their December 1, 2018, draw. With Anthony Joshua having faltered as a fighter since his comeback victory over Wladimir Klitschko three years ago, the consensus is that Fury is now the #1 heavyweight in the world.

    Wilder-Fury II shaped up from the start as an intriguing drama. Fury has a fighter's name (first and last). "Deontay" sounds like a fashion designer's moniker. But don't be misled. Wilder has an aura of menace about him. In the ring, he evokes images of a deadly raptor ripping its prey to shreds with a single strike.

    Fury has an erratic persona. By his own admission, he has struggled with severe depression for most of his life. On November 28, 2015, he decisioned Wladimir Klitschko to claim the WBA, IBF, and WBO belts. Then he began spouting homophobic, misogynist, anti-Semitic dogma before abandoning boxing to deal with his emotional problems.

    "Part of the attraction with Fury," British journalist Ron Lewis writes, "has always been, you genuinely don’t know what he is going to say. Sometimes he will just make stuff up. In the modern boxing media where video journalists generally outnumber writers, the soundbite is king. Soundbites are rolled out and the outlandish remarks are gobbled up as good material. And Fury gives good soundbites. Whether they are true or not doesn’t really matter. What counts is that people click."

    Fury returned to the ring in 2018 after a thirty-month absence and notched lackluster victories over Sefer Seferi and Francesco Pianeta. On December 1, 2018, he survived ninth and twelfth-round knockdowns en route to a draw against Wilder. Less-than-impressive triumphs over Tom Schwarz and Otto Wallin followed.

    In his most recent ring appearance, Tyson journeyed to Saudi Arabia for an October 31, 2019, staged wrestling spectacle that pitted him against WWE strongman Braun Strowman.

    Fury has good boxing skills for a man his size. He stands close to 6-feet-9-inches tall and fights in the neighborhood of a non-svelt 260 pounds. There's a lot of jiggling when he moves around the canvas. At age 31, he entered the ring for Wilder-Fury II as an undefeated professional boxer with 29 wins, 20 knockouts, and a draw in 30 fights.

    Wilder captured a bronze medal at the 2008 Olympics as a raw 23-year-old. Seven years later, he annexed the WBC heavyweight title by decision over Bermane Stiverne. Since then, he has successfully defended his belt ten times against mostly pedestrian opposition. His most credible opponents were Luis Ortiz (twice) and Fury.

    Deontay has made some good life choices and also some bad ones. There have been incidents of violence outside the ring and public utterances that made him look and sound like a bully. There's a nagging feeling that he unwisely left a lot of money on table and lost an opportunity to consolidate all four heavyweight championship belts when he blew off a three-fight $100 million offer from DAZN last year.

    That said; Wilder can punch. Bigtime. Entering the ring on February 22, he had 40 knockout victories in 42 fights, with only Fury and Stiverne having gone the distance against him. And Stiverne was obliterated on a first-round knockout when they met in the ring for the second time.

    As writer Carlos Acevedo noted, "There is no softening-up process necessary for Wilder to demolish an opponent. Cumulative damage is not a prerequisite. He picks his high-spots (moments when he fully commits to his bludgeonous right hand) with care, and few can withstand its direct impact."

    Fighters are associated with certain phrases . . . Joe Louis: "He can run but he can't hide" . . . Mike Tyson: "They all have a plan until they get hit" . . .

    Wilder sums up nicely when he says of each opponent, "He has to be perfect for twelve rounds. I have to be perfect for two seconds."

    Let's say it again. Wilder can punch. His right hand is devastating. And not only isn't he afraid to throw it; his entire fight plan (at the risk of losing round after round on the judges' scorecards) is about trying to land it. His conventional boxing skills are limited. His chin is suspect, but he has learned to use his height and reach to protect it. Give him time to set up and proceed at his leisure, and he will destroy you.

    Moreover, Wilder carries his power late. As Fury found out in round twelve of their first encounter, Deontay is dangerous until the final bell.

    "This is a gladiator sport," Wilder says. "It ain’t no room for weakness in this sport, especially when you’re a champion because you’ll always be a target. You’re always gonna have a bullseye on your back. So you’ve gotta have a mentality like that. It’s good to be nice and kind and **** like that. But when it comes to boxing, you can’t show no weakness. You’ve gotta show that you’re a savage, that you ain’t nothing to be messed with, and that’s what I show. Put fear in these guys’ hearts and really mean it. When you fight Deontay Wilder, I take something from you. I take years from your life."

    As for Fury's psychiatric issues, Wilder acknowledged, "We all have mental problems. Ain’t nobody one hundred percent. I’m crazy at times. I go do things at times. I been had a gun in my hand before thinking about committing suicide. I mean, ****. It ain't no different. I can be a role model, but you have to accept me and embrace me for who I am. I may say some crazy stuff. I may make up my own words at times. I’m human. I don’t walk a straight path and a lot of things may go wrong in my life and it’s going to be up to me to correct them. I just tell people to accept me for who I am. I am who I am. I’m not perfect."

    For a while, Wilder was skeptical that the rematch would take place.

    "Fury doesn't want to fight me again," Deontay said. "He's satisfied with the draw and he wants to run with a moral victory." That was followed by reference to Fury rising from the canvas after what initially seemed to be a fight-ending knockout: "I knocked some marbles out his head. When a man doesn't know how he got knocked onto the ground or how he got up, that ain't no good sign. His family don't even want him to fight me again. He don't want to either, but he's got to."

    In due course, the rematch was signed with the two sides agreeing to a 50-50 revenue split.

    It would be Wilder (backed by Premier Boxing Champions and FOX) versus Fury (in league with Top Rank and ESPN). Thereafter, Top Rank CEO Bob Arum predicted that Wilder-Fury II would engender two million pay-per-view buys. That left a left of observers willing to bet the "under," since Wilder-Fury I was generously estimated to have generated 325,000.

    In truth, neither Fury or Wilder had sold well to the public in the past.

    Wilder had headlined two previous fight cards in Las Vegas. According to numbers released by the Nevada State Athletic Commission, 4,074 tickets resulting in a live gate of $755,200 were sold for his 2015 outing against Bermane Stiverne. Deontay's 2019 rematch against Luis Ortiz generated a live gate of $4,063,141 on 7,403 tickets sold. Depending on whom one believes, Wilder-Ortiz II (which was distributed on pay-per-view by Fox) engendered between 225,000 and 275,000 buys. Since FOX is reported to have guaranteed 500,000 buys for Wilder-Ortiz II, that translated into a lot of red ink.

    Meanwhile, the live gate for Fury-Schwarz at the MGM Grand was $882,145 with 5,489 tickets sold. The live gate for Fury-Wallin at T-Mobile Arena was $999,723 with 3,577 tickets purchased. There were more comps (3,898) for Fury-Wallin than tickets sold.

    To state the obvious, these are not good numbers. But ESPN and FOX (which jointly handled the pay-per-view for Wilder-Fury II) went all-in on promotion of the rematch.

    FOX is available in 120 million American homes. ESPN has 83 million domestic subscribers. ESPN put the promotion into high gear on December 28 when Fury appeared on its College Gameday program prior to the Bowl Championship Series semi-final football game between LSU and Oklahoma. Then, on February 2, FOX broadcast two Wilder-Fury II commercials during Super Bowl LIV. According to Nielsen Media Research, the first Super Bowl promo (which ran at 8:02 PM eastern time) was seen by 103.5 million viewers. The second (which aired 35 minutes later) drew 101.1 million. There were also seven pre-game promotional spots that averaged 18 million viewers each.

    Given the fact that in-game Super Bowl commercials normally cost advertisers as much as $10 million a minute, this marked a significant investment by FOX in the promotion.

    The lead-up to Wilder-Fury II was marked (and sometimes marred) by back-and-forth utterances between the fighters.

    Fury did his part to debase the public dialogue during a media scrum immediately after the January 13 kick-off press conference in Los Angeles. Discussing his preparation for the rematch, he declared, "I'm masturbating seven times a day to keep my testosterone pumping. Pump it, pump it, pump it, pump it up! Don'tcha know! I gotta to keep active and the testosterone flowing for the fight."

    Later, Tyson declared, “I look at Wilder and I don’t see a tough fight. I see a long-legged pussy that I’m going to break in. A big 6-foot-7-inch virgin that ain’t been rodded before. I’m going to bend him over and scuttle him backwards nice and slowly."

    Fury further pledged, “After this fight, I’m going to binge on cocaine and hookers. Is there anything better than cocaine and hookers? I go to the cheap thirty-dollar ones. Always give yourself a shot of penicillin before shagging ‘em. If you haven't got the penicillin, always double-bag up.”

    Wilder responded more simply, saying, "This is unfinished business that I will finish. Come February 22, I'm going to rip his head off his body. The first fight was a very controversial fight. We left people confused about who won. This is where we come and settle everything. This is judgment day."

    When fight week arrived, the hype machine went into in overdrive, proclaiming that Wilder-Fury II was one of the most anticipated heavyweight championship matches of all time. There was a massive amount of network shoulder programming including extensive on-site coverage from February 18 until fight night.

    ESPN and FOX, which talk breathlessly about "unified titles" when match-ups like Vasyl Lomachenko vs. Jose Pedraza occur, suddenly forgot that the WBA, WBO, and IBF (each of which recognizes Anthony Joshua as its heavyweight champion) exist. Also forgotten was the fact that, in Wilder-Fury I, the fighters had landed a total of only 155 punches between them. That's six punches per fighter per round.

    No matter. The twelfth-round knockdown and Fury getting up from it had elevated Wilder-Fury II as a commercial attraction. The fight sparked high interest in the boxing community. Whether or not this interest was spilling over to general sports fans and beyond was a separate issue. Tickets were available at list price until three days before the fight.

    Fury predicted that he'd knock Wilder out in the second round. That earned a scornful rejoinder from Deontay, who proclaimed, "Fury has got pillows as fists. We all know he don’t have no power. He's just a tall big man that can move around a ring and that's about it. As far as him knocking me out, he don’t believe that himself. He can’t even see that in his dreams.”

    There was the usual *****ic (and dangerous) shoving and shouting at the final pre-fight press conference on Wednesday, all of which was gleefully distributed as a marketing tool by the promotion (except for the part where Wilder and Fury trashed each other as being unmarketable).

    Among other things, Wilder berated Fury, saying, "When I found you, you was strung out on coke. When I found you, you was big as a house, contemplating about killing yourself. So don't you ever forget who brought you to bigtime boxing. I brought you back. I put food on your table for your family to eat. Don't you ever forget that."

    On Thursday, to its credit, the Nevada State Athletic Commission ruled that, for security reasons, the fighters would not be allowed to engage in the ritual staredown at the close of Friday's weigh-in. Arum complained about the ruling, but all was not lost. After the weigh-in, as Fury and Wilder stood on opposite sides of the stage with six commission inspectors between them, Fury gave Wilder the finger and Deontay responded by grabbing his crotch.

    For their first encounter, Wilder had weighed in at 212-1/2 pounds. This time, he tipped the scales at 231 (his heaviest ever). Fury had weighed 256-1/2 pounds the first time around. Now it was 273 (three pounds less than his all-time high). The general feeling was that the extra weight would help Wilder and hurt Fury.

    It was a pick 'em fight with a slight edge in the odds, if any, toward Wilder. Looking at the two bouts that each man had engaged in subsequent to their first encounter, Deontay had seemed to be improving (against Dominic Breazeale and Luis Ortiz). Fury, on the other hand, had appeared to be stagnating (against Tom Schwarz and Otto Wallin).

    "Deontay does not get the credit that he deserves for the improvement," Jay Deas (Wilder's co-trainer and adviser) said in a February 12 media conference call. "I don't think people totally get what they're seeing, and sometimes they don't understand the nuances of the sport. We do what we call a six-month test. Every six months, we ask ourselves, 'Would you right now beat you from six months ago?' And I can answer one hundred percent honestly that, since the beginning of the first day that he came in the gym, that answer has been yes. He keeps getting better and better and better and smarter and refined with the technique. The things that people don't really get is the timing, the distance, the spacing, the positioning, all those things that allow you to land those big punches. That's skill. And he wants to learn. He's the kind of guy that is still hungry to get better and better."

    ESPN commentator Teddy Atlas was in accord, saying, "I feel like Wilder has added something. He’s added a delivery system where he mesmerizes you with the jab and then BOP, the right hand is right behind it, George Foreman did it, Teofilo Stevenson did it. They lie to you. They make you think you’re safe because they’re only throwing the jab three-quarters so you think that’s the end of the line for danger. But it’s not. It’s about three inches further because they didn’t extend the jab. And Wilder has learned how to do that by making you think you’re safe. You cooperate a little, and then BOOM!"

    In December, Fury announced that he was replacing trainer Ben Davison with Sugar Hill and that Stitch Duran (not Jorge Capetillo) would be his cutman for the February 22 rematch. Fury and Hill soon began talking about tapping into a new reserve of power. But as Don Turner (who trained Evander Holyfield and Larry Holmes late in their respective ring careers) observed, "You don't take a fighter in his thirties, change his style, and teach him to punch with more power in an eight-week training camp. The fighter makes the fighter. The trainer only helps."

    Those who picked Wilder to win the rematch noted that, as Wilder-Fury I progressed, Deontay seemed to figure Tyson out. He'd knocked Fury down in both the ninth and twelfth rounds and was likely to set up his punches more effectively the second time around.

    Also, there was the matter of "the cut." Fury had suffered a gruesome gash along his right eyebrow courtesy of a left hook from Wallin in round three of their September 14 bout. The cut bled profusely throughout the fight and required 47 stitches to close.

    The scar tissue from that cut would be an attractive target for Wilder. "No matter what he does," Deontay said, "when he fights me, it's going to open right back up. I’m going to pop it right back open. He can get plastic surgery, duct tape or staples, super glue or hot glue, cement glue. ****, he can go get some of that flex glue. It ain’t gonna to matter. I definitely look forward to re-cutting open that eye."

    And finally, there was the biggest factor of all - Wilder's power.

    "I’ve never seen anything like it," Bob Arum (who co-promotes Fury with Frank Warren) said. "It's actually accentuated by the fact he doesn’t know how to box. He's a horrible boxer. He puts on a clinic of how not to box, but he has that right hand."

    "For one punch," Teddy Atlas added, "just one punch, I think Wilder is the hardest puncher in the history of the sport."

    Yes, Wilder was a one-trick pony. But it was quite a trick.

    Meanwhile, the case for a Fury victory began with Wilder's limited repertoire. Bart Barry spoke for many when he wrote, "Wilder only took what he did best and committed to doing it better. If the holes in his style aren't any larger now than when he started, they are, surprisingly, no smaller."

    Fury's partisans also reasoned that their man would be in better shape for the rematch than for the first fight and wouldn't tire down the stretch as he had before. Also, they were confident that, this time, in addition to making Wilder miss, he'd make Deontay pay when he missed.

    Asked what he'd learned from Wilder-Fury I, Tyson responded, "He's got a big right hand and that's it. He's a one-dimensional fighter. The biggest mistake I made last time was not making him pay when he was hurt. I didn’t know what I had in the tank last time. This time, I know I can go the distance. I'll throw everything but the kitchen sink at him, and he won't know what hit him."

    As for the knockdown in round twelve of their first encounter, Fury explained, "I backed up in a straight line and got clipped with a right hand and it was good night, Vienna. That was all she wrote. But then I rose from the canvas like a phoenix from the ashes to get back into it, take him up, and finish the fight the stronger man."

    There were a host of battles between ESPN and FOX behind the scenes with regard to a whole range of issues. Finally, it was agreed as to on-air talent that Joe Tessitore (ESPN) would call the blow by blow with expert commentary from Lennox Lewis (FOX) and Andre Ward (ESPN). Host Brian Kenny (FOX) would be joined at the fight-night desk by Max Kellerman (ESPN), Shawn Porter (FOX), and Timothy Bradley (ESPN). In addition, Mark Kriegel (ESPN), Kate Abdo (FOX), and Bernardo Osuna (ESPN) would serve as ringside reporters while Larry Hazzard (FOX) would be the unofficial scorer and rules expert.

    There was a lot of chatter during the televised portion of the pay-per-view undercard about how this would be Wilder's eleventh consecutive heavyweight title defense, breaking a tie that he'd held with Muhammad Ali. This ignored the fact that Ali was the undisputed heavyweight champion of the world during his reign while Deontay was one of many. Max Kellerman then analogized Fury's boxing skills and elusiveness in the ring to that of Wilfred Benitez and Willie Pep.

    Viewers were also told that the live gate for Wilder-Fury II had surpassed $17 million which made it the largest live gate in the history of heavyweight boxing in Nevada. Lewis-Holyfield II in 1999 had grossed $16.86 million. Of course, accounting for inflation, $16.86 million in 1999 would be worth $26.28 million today.

    Fury, wearing a red velour robe and sitting on a throne, was wheeled to the ring by four buxom women while a recording of Crazy sung by Patsy Cline played over the public address system. Wilder's opted for glitzy black body armor accessorized by a black mask during his ring walk with rapper D Smoke providing the soundtrack.

    Then came the moment of reckoning.

    Fury dominated the action from beginning to end. He came out aggressively in the first two rounds, stalking and outjabbing Wilder, who hardly jabbed at all. As is usually the case, Deontay did little to set up his punches and looked simply to land the big one. His deficiencies as a boxer showed.

    Boxing Fury is a bit like boxing a mountain. Wilder was having trouble coping with a bigger man who chose this time to come right at him, throwing punches.

    With 38 seconds left in round three, Fury dropped Wilder with a clubbing overhand right that landed on Deontay's left ear. If Wilder had looked bad before, from that point on, he looked awful. His legs were weak. His balance was unsteady. He bled profusely from his left ear and seemed confused if not dazed. He wasn't just losing rounds. For the first time in his career, he was getting beaten up.

    Referee Kenny Bayless helped Wilder a bit by breaking the fighters at times when Fury was working effectively inside. Then, not long after Tyson dropped Deontay with a hook to the body in round five, Bayless (without previous warning) took a point away from Fury for hitting on the break.

    By round six, Wilder was fighting like he was out on his feet. And more significantly, his power had deserted him. It no longer looked as though he had the ability to change the course of the fight with one punch. It was then that Fury had the poor taste to lick Deontay's neck during a clinch to taste the blood that was flowing from his ear.

    The mauling continued. One minute 37 seconds into round seven, with Wilder trapped in a neutral corner and Fury pounding away, Mark Breland (Deontay's chief second) threw in the towel.

    "Things like this happen," Wilder said in a post-fight interview with Bernardo Osuna. "The best man won tonight. I just wish my corner would have let me go out on my shield."

    He's fortunate that they didn't.

    Fury's story is a remarkable tale of redemption given the mental health issues that forced his hiatus from the ring four years ago. As for what comes next; Wilder has thirty days to exercise a rematch clause for a third fight that would be contested with a 60-40 revenue split in favor of Team Fury.

    Meanwhile, in the weeks ahead, there will be a lot of talk about "greatness." Thus, it's worth considering the thoughts of Carlos Acevedo who wrote, "Of all the concepts, phrases, and words that have devolved in boxing over the years, none has slipped so drastically as the notion of greatness. Writers and reporters take many of their cues directly from press releases, publicists, promoters, and network puffers. This is like taking advice from a three-card monte dealer on where the queen of hearts may be."

    In his most recent fight preceding Wilder-Fury II, Fury struggled against Otto Wallin. Against Wilder on Saturday night, at times he looked sloppy. Two victories - against Wladimir Klitschko and now Wilder - don't qualify a fighter for greatness.

    Fury himself seems to understand that notion. During a media conference call to promote Wilder-Fury II, he declared, "The only thing that means anything to me is winning these fights. That's it, period. I'm a purebred fighting man through and through. And when it's over, it's over. I'm not really concerned about the legacy. I'm not overly concerned about what happens when I'm done. We can only take one chapter of our lives at a time, and I'm just enjoying living in the moment right now. I'm living my dream, my childhood dream, my young adult dream, and my midlife dream. I really don’t care about legacy because what somebody thinks of me when I'm finished is unimportant. It's all sticks and stones. Whether it's good or bad, everyone is entitled to their opinion. And there will be somebody else to replace me just like every other champion."

    Photo credit: Al Applerose

    Thomas Hauser's email address is thomashauserwriter@gmail.com. His most recent book – A Dangerous Journey: Another Year Inside Boxing– was published by the University of Arkansas Press. In 2004, the Boxing Writers Association of America honored Hauser with the Nat Fleischer Award for career excellence in boxing journalism. On June 14, 2020, he will be inducted into the International Boxing Hall of Fame.



  • #2
    When it was finally (finally!!) about boxing:

    Wilder simply couldn’t stand up to Fury.

    Given how obviously biased American Kenny Bayless was being in favor of Wilder, that put Deontay in a very dangerous spot. Possibly the most dangerous in all of boxing. His opponent was tuning him up and the referee was not protecting Wilder because he was too busy trying to save his undefeated record, his WBC title, and the rematch payday. That’s how you get a guy killed and that’s why the corner was forced into the indignity of surrender. Bayless couldn’t even protect Wilder from that.

    Comment


    • Kid Blast
      Kid Blast commented
      Editing a comment
      Back in my NYC days in the 70's, that would have been called a "Central Park Mugging."

  • #3
    Wow. Very neat and lengthy read but I sensed a tad of "lean" towards Wilder.

    “Fury has good boxing skills for a man his size.” Hmm, I think that’s very debatable. I’d say he has outstanding skills for his size. He fights in a comfortable and relaxed manner using great head movement and subtle feints and using his jab when necessary, but he can also use his size to bully his man and beat him up on the inside, especially against the ropes. He has great ring smarts and can focus and stick with a plan for as long as it takes. He listens to his corner well. And he closes with finality. Fury is no Mike “The Giant” White, or Valuev, or David Price or Primo Canera. Heck, he's not even Toro Moreno.

    No sir! I'd not diminish this giant in any way—perceived or otherwise—and that includes the Schwarz fight. Finally, the many facets of Tyson Fury need to be compartmentalized. He knows how to hype a fight and he knows how to fight----he also knows how to do some real good outside the ring since his epiphany.

    Comment


    • #4
      Wilder is a bit like a heavyweight version of a few boxers I knew as an amateur that were/are extremely dependent upon landing that right hand.

      If they land it’s all over.



      A few guys come to mind that, years ago, during the hours/days before you would visit their gyms and/or vice versa, and/or if/when you had a scheduled bout (on the amateur circuit) with them, I recall it was always difficult to get your head around the fact that you might just end up iced and severely embarrassed in front of everyone; because 1 punch knockout power aint no joke.



      The thing with losing a boxing fight is that . . .

      Whilst the loss aint great, contrary to popular wisdom the matter of consequence that is almost always of higher value (particularly with fighters like Zab Judah) than the actual loss, is usually the risk of being publicly embarrassed; including by way of knockout; in front of all your peers/friends.



      Wilder is no different.



      Anyway, after a while (and lots of nervous tension and bruises) - as an amateur that has decided/committed to moving forward and overcoming one of the most frightening aspects of competition boxing (being iced by a guy in your division that has proven Ms. Kaur power) - you do finally adjust and realize that, that huge right hand (and/or left hook) is also predictable, and . . ..

      If you do finally/meaningfully accept it in that holistic way (and/or feed off and counter it with another right hand) then things can then all of a sudden seem to even up.

      If not actually (ending up) favoring you.



      You see there are 2 main power-domains of fear/consequence associated facing a with a big puncher and winning.

      .
      1) The psychological aspect of what might happen.


      2) And, the physical/painful and sometimes embarrassing reality of the debilitating catastrophe that is being stopped in combat/competition.



      Point 2 cannot usually be surmounted unless point 1 has been contained and/or mastered.

      It rarely works the other way around.



      How it usually works in the amateurs (and to some extent also in the Pros) is that you either adjust and grow with your craft.

      Or, you end up frozen in fear, possibly scared/knocked out, and always looking to avoid guys that can end the show with one punch.



      This problem is undoubtedly one of the biggest issues/fears to overcome in competition boxing/fighting.



      If you get it right, what can happen is that the guy with the right hand no longer becomes a threat and then he struggles with the fact that he no longer has a psychological edge over you.

      And, once that psychological edge is removed it’s much, much, easier to defend against and also counter his - previously omnipotent - right hand.



      This is especially true for a guy like Tyson Fury whom is so tall, long (reach), heavy, and (for a heavyweight {even a middleweight}) agile.

      Fury can hit you when you can't reach/hit him.



      Furthermore, he doesn’t always need to be in peak condition.

      His physical attributes confirm that.



      Which means even if you're a fast counter puncher, you may not always get him.

      He only has to lean back 10 degrees and then, even if your punches were going to land, he still easily/still makes you miss.



      Furthermore, his opponents always have to punch up if they're to hit his face.

      That's 20% more difficulty right there.

      Particularly within the rounds from 7 onwards - up to 10 or 12.



      And to add to it all he's been a Gypsy all is life, so he knows about fighting; and he's just not intimidated by fighting with gloves on.



      And then you have the fact that even though his style is really awkward and messy what it really means is that he (easily) throws his punches (down) and then just smothers you and/or leans on you and wrestles you; when he’s finished.

      The result is that (even as Fury takes a break after throwing) his opponents get leaned on and/or taxed and/or don't get a chance to counter; even if they could.



      Then - once the referee breaks it up - Fury (provided he is in shape) just resets at his perfect distance and starts throwing punches again.



      And, (as we found out this/last weekend) since Tyson weighs 270 pounds, every time he hits you and/or leans on you and/or smothers you . . .

      It’s taking a big toll on you.



      Fury’s style (visually) is a mess.

      No respected boxing purist would say otherwise.



      And, whilst that comment may sound harsh . . . .

      It makes absolutely no attempt at all to confirm that his skills/technique are, or are not, good/great . . . .



      What it means is that Fury is a Gypsy that’s as comfortable in his (extremely unorthodox, economical, and highly effective/efficient) skin/style - as he not fazed by fighting anyone; with or without gloves/rules.



      And that counts for something.

      Particularly against guys that are meant to be knockout artists; like Wilder.



      As such (whilst Tyson remains in good cardiovascular condition) Fury’s style will be a problem for most fighters (AJ included), and . . .

      He will be (provided he stays fit) unbeatable for quite a few years.






      Cheers,

      Storm(MaximusDecimusMeridius)Centre.








      PS;
      remember - https://forum.ib.tv/forum/forum/boxi...ntre#post16173
       

      Comment


      • #5
        Wilder may prove to be DaVarryl Williamson 2.0 😴

        But with a much better matchmaker and advisor.

        Comment


        • Kid Blast
          Kid Blast commented
          Editing a comment
          Well, he's a one-trick pony, That's for sure. And I think he may not have the smarts to pick and choose his next few opponents so that fighting them would bring him back, And if he has dropped Breland (as rumored), then he will be in dire straights.SAD

      • #6
        Originally posted by StormCentre View Post
        Wilder is a bit like a heavyweight version of a few boxers I knew as an amateur that were/are extremely dependent upon landing that right hand.

        If they land it’s all over.



        A few guys come to mind that, years ago, during the hours/days before you would visit their gyms and/or vice versa, and/or if/when you had a scheduled bout (on the amateur circuit) with them, I recall it was always difficult to get your head around the fact that you might just end up iced and severely embarrassed in front of everyone; because 1 punch knockout power aint no joke.



        The thing with losing a boxing fight is that . . .

        Whilst the loss aint great, contrary to popular wisdom the matter of consequence that is almost always of higher value (particularly with fighters like Zab Judah) than the actual loss, is usually the risk of being publicly embarrassed; including by way of knockout; in front of all your peers/friends.



        Wilder is no different.



        Anyway, after a while (and lots of nervous tension and bruises) - as an amateur that has decided/committed to moving forward and overcoming one of the most frightening aspects of competition boxing (being iced by a guy in your division that has proven Ms. Kaur power) - you do finally adjust and realize that, that huge right hand (and/or left hook) is also predictable, and . . ..

        If you do finally/meaningfully accept it in that holistic way (and/or feed off and counter it with another right hand) then things can then all of a sudden seem to even up.

        If not actually (ending up) favoring you.



        You see there are 2 main power-domains of fear/consequence associated facing a with a big puncher and winning.

        .
        1) The psychological aspect of what might happen.


        2) And, the physical/painful and sometimes embarrassing reality of the debilitating catastrophe that is being stopped in combat/competition.



        Point 2 cannot usually be surmounted unless point 1 has been contained and/or mastered.

        It rarely works the other way around.



        How it usually works in the amateurs (and to some extent also in the Pros) is that you either adjust and grow with your craft.

        Or, you end up frozen in fear, possibly scared/knocked out, and always looking to avoid guys that can end the show with one punch.



        This problem is undoubtedly one of the biggest issues/fears to overcome in competition boxing/fighting.



        If you get it right, what can happen is that the guy with the right hand no longer becomes a threat and then he struggles with the fact that he no longer has a psychological edge over you.

        And, once that psychological edge is removed it’s much, much, easier to defend against and also counter his - previously omnipotent - right hand.



        This is especially true for a guy like Tyson Fury whom is so tall, long (reach), heavy, and (for a heavyweight {even a middleweight}) agile.

        Fury can hit you when you can't reach/hit him.



        Furthermore, he doesn’t always need to be in peak condition.

        His physical attributes confirm that.



        Which means even if you're a fast counter puncher, you may not always get him.

        He only has to lean back 10 degrees and then, even if your punches were going to land, he still easily/still makes you miss.



        Furthermore, his opponents always have to punch up if they're to hit his face.

        That's 20% more difficulty right there.

        Particularly within the rounds from 7 onwards - up to 10 or 12.



        And to add to it all he's been a Gypsy all is life, so he knows about fighting; and he's just not intimidated by fighting with gloves on.



        And then you have the fact that even though his style is really awkward and messy what it really means is that he (easily) throws his punches (down) and then just smothers you and/or leans on you and wrestles you; when he’s finished.

        The result is that (even as Fury takes a break after throwing) his opponents get leaned on and/or taxed and/or don't get a chance to counter; even if they could.



        Then - once the referee breaks it up - Fury (provided he is in shape) just resets at his perfect distance and starts throwing punches again.



        And, (as we found out this/last weekend) since Tyson weighs 270 pounds, every time he hits you and/or leans on you and/or smothers you . . .

        It’s taking a big toll on you.



        Fury’s style (visually) is a mess.

        No respected boxing purist would say otherwise.



        And, whilst that comment may sound harsh . . . .

        It makes absolutely no attempt at all to confirm that his skills/technique are, or are not, good/great . . . .



        What it means is that Fury is a Gypsy that’s as comfortable in his (extremely unorthodox, economical, and highly effective/efficient) skin/style - as he not fazed by fighting anyone; with or without gloves/rules.



        And that counts for something.

        Particularly against guys that are meant to be knockout artists; like Wilder.



        As such (whilst Tyson remains in good cardiovascular condition) Fury’s style will be a problem for most fighters (AJ included), and . . .

        He will be (provided he stays fit) unbeatable for quite a few years.






        Cheers,

        Storm(MaximusDecimusMeridius)Centre.








        PS;
        remember - https://forum.ib.tv/forum/forum/boxi...ntre#post16173
        "Fury’s style (visually) is a mess.

        "No respected boxing purist would say otherwise.

        "And, whilst that comment may sound harsh "


        Hmm. That is too harsh IMO. Heck, he is 6'9". He knows how to use every inch to his advantage. But yes, the Gypsy factor is important--something missed by almost all writers. Like a fine racing horse, these Gypsters are bred to fight. It's an intangible. Fact is, I think Fury enjoys it.

        Comment


        • #7
          Originally posted by Kid Blast View Post

          "Fury’s style (visually) is a mess.

          "No respected boxing purist would say otherwise.

          "And, whilst that comment may sound harsh "


          Hmm. That is too harsh IMO. Heck, he is 6'9". He knows how to use every inch to his advantage. But yes, the Gypsy factor is important--something missed by almost all writers. Like a fine racing horse, these Gypsters are bred to fight. It's an intangible. Fact is, I think Fury enjoys it.


          Yes, I was aware you may not provide a warm reception to those comments of mine.

          Particularly after reading what you replied to Hauser.



          However, the fact remains that Fury’s style is (particularly on first inspection) visually a mess.

          I am prepared to defend that claim.



          In fact, I have actually stated it in the presence of other Gypsy boxers he knows and/or associates with, such as BJS.

          The result was laughter and agreement.



          Perhaps they understand what/how I mean it a little better than others.

          Let me explain.



          Whilst Fury’s style visually is a mess; or perhaps better put a little untidy.

          Once you realize what he’s doing and how he is deploying his skills/style . . . .



          You realize that whilst his style is a mess in some ways . . .

          In the same way that Sid Vicious and the Sex Pistols were said (by Malcolm McLaren their promoter/manager) to be a fantastic disaster. . . . .

          It’s an absolutely fantastic mess.



          Please note that in my previous post I also made the distinction that regardless of how visually messy and/or unpleasing Tyson’s style may be to the optic nerve, it is also . . .

          A style that is extremely unorthodox, economical, and highly effective/efficient.



          And, whilst the terms “messy”, “untidy” and “unorthodox” may unintentionally sound harsh . . . .

          It both, is not and makes absolutely no attempt at all to confirm that his skills/technique are not good/great.



          I was only just the other day speaking to a friend of mine about Fury and said words to the effect . . . .

          Fury Tyson is tough, awkward, tall/agile (for a heavyweight), strangely competent for his unusual (but effective) style, always confident, and one of those rare fighters that seem as if they don’t always need to fight increasingly better opposition and/or be in exceptional cardio/other shape, in order to perform well in the big fights.



          So, to remove doubt and for the purposes of clarity . . . .

          Fury is a guy with an unusual but effective style that - even when he’s not in top shape - can still;

          .
          A) Go 12 with one of the heavyweight division’s top dogs and biggest punchers, and still (for the most part) control the fight.


          B) Get up in round 12 after being knocked down and take the fight to his opponent.


          C) After experiencing the above points “A” and “B”; call for a rematch whilst making knockout predictions and, not only deliver on the Gypsy prophecy - but also, do it in absolutely devastating/powerful form.



          Not many heavyweights can do all that.

          Mike Tyson was unable to do so

          Lennox Lewis was able to do so.



          Frazier and Muhammad Ali were cut from the same cloth that would enable them to do so.

          Although I do rank both (Frazier and Muhammad Ali) men’s skills higher than the Gypsy King’s; a fact I am sure Fury would not argue.

          The fact remains that Tyson Fury is (within the context of fighting) probably as mentally tough as any of the famous above-mentioned boxers/guys.



          Additionally, Pacquaio’s style was also messy in my opinion.

          But it mostly served him well.



          Finally, Naseem Hamed’s style was also messy in my opinion.

          And, whilst his somewhat messy and unorthodox style mostly served him well too . . . . .

          It was actually Hamed’s extremely unique attributes that (covered what would have otherwise been perceived as a series of observably messy seams that insecurely chained together all Hamed’s fundamentally unsound actions/maneuvers that he called upon during each fight) served to ensure that almost all the brilliant - but fundamentally questionable - maneuvers he executed were not put work and/or actioned unless they were treated with Naseem’s dynamic flexibility, unpredictable explosiveness, and limitless confidence, so that the whole picture usually came together perfectly with seamless transitions that were almost always fit for purpose and perfect.



          In doing so Hamed’s unique attributes (particularly his flexibility and unpredictable explosiveness) that underpinned the brilliant fundamentally questionable style that constituted his reliable delivery system for wins by points/stoppage, was not so easily perceived as being the random collection of messy ad-hoc routines that it might have otherwise been seen as.

          Hope that makes sense.




          Cheers,

          Storm.


           

          Comment


          • #8
            Originally posted by StormCentre View Post



            Yes, I was aware you may not provide a warm reception to those comments of mine.

            Particularly after reading what you replied to Hauser.



            However, the fact remains that Fury’s style is (particularly on first inspection) visually a mess.

            I am prepared to defend that claim.



            In fact, I have actually stated it in the presence of other Gypsy boxers he knows and/or associates with, such as BJS.

            The result was laughter and agreement.



            Perhaps they understand what/how I mean it a little better than others.

            Let me explain.



            Whilst Fury’s style visually is a mess; or perhaps better put a little untidy.

            Once you realize what he’s doing and how he is deploying his skills/style . . . .



            You realize that whilst his style is a mess in some ways . . .

            In the same way that Sid Vicious and the Sex Pistols were said (by Malcolm McLaren their promoter/manager) to be a fantastic disaster. . . . .

            It’s an absolutely fantastic mess.



            Please note that in my previous post I also made the distinction that regardless of how visually messy and/or unpleasing Tyson’s style may be to the optic nerve, it is also . . .

            A style that is extremely unorthodox, economical, and highly effective/efficient.



            And, whilst the terms “messy”, “untidy” and “unorthodox” may unintentionally sound harsh . . . .

            It both, is not and makes absolutely no attempt at all to confirm that his skills/technique are not good/great.



            I was only just the other day speaking to a friend of mine about Fury and said words to the effect . . . .

            Fury Tyson is tough, awkward, tall/agile (for a heavyweight), strangely competent for his unusual (but effective) style, always confident, and one of those rare fighters that seem as if they don’t always need to fight increasingly better opposition and/or be in exceptional cardio/other shape, in order to perform well in the big fights.



            So, to remove doubt and for the purposes of clarity . . . .

            Fury is a guy with an unusual but effective style that - even when he’s not in top shape - can still;

            .
            A) Go 12 with one of the heavyweight division’s top dogs and biggest punchers, and still (for the most part) control the fight.


            B) Get up in round 12 after being knocked down and take the fight to his opponent.


            C) After experiencing the above points “A” and “B”; call for a rematch whilst making knockout predictions and, not only deliver on the Gypsy prophecy - but also, do it in absolutely devastating/powerful form.




            Not many heavyweights can do all that.

            Mike Tyson was unable to do so

            Lennox Lewis was able to do so.



            Frazier and Muhammad Ali were cut from the same cloth that would enable them to do so.

            Although I do rank both (Frazier and Muhammad Ali) men’s skills higher than the Gypsy King’s; a fact I am sure Fury would not argue.

            The fact remains that Tyson Fury is (within the context of fighting) probably as mentally tough as any of the famous above-mentioned boxers/guys.



            Additionally, Pacquaio’s style was also messy in my opinion.

            But it mostly served him well.



            Finally, Naseem Hamed’s style was also messy in my opinion.

            And, whilst his somewhat messy and unorthodox style mostly served him well too . . . . .

            It was actually Hamed’s extremely unique attributes that (covered what would have otherwise been perceived as a series of observably messy seams that insecurely chained together all Hamed’s fundamentally unsound actions/maneuvers that he called upon during each fight) served to ensure that almost all the brilliant - but fundamentally questionable - maneuvers he executed were not put work and/or actioned unless they were treated with Naseem’s dynamic flexibility, unpredictable explosiveness, and limitless confidence, so that the whole picture usually came together perfectly with seamless transitions that were almost always fit for purpose and perfect.



            In doing so Hamed’s unique attributes (particularly his flexibility and unpredictable explosiveness) that underpinned the brilliant fundamentally questionable style that constituted his reliable delivery system for wins by points/stoppage, was not so easily perceived as being the random collection of messy ad-hoc routines that it might have otherwise been seen as.

            Hope that makes sense.




            Cheers,

            Storm.

            OK, I GET WHAT YOU ARE SAYING 100% "...unusual but effective style..." = KEY POINT. BTW, I LOVE THE STYLE OF BJS.

            Comment


            • #9
              Brilliant . . . . .

              We’re all on the same page.


              Cheers,

              Storm.


               

              Comment


              • #10
                When I was basic combat training I found the Kevlar helmet and 60 pound ruck sack to be a little cumbersome (heavy) but complaining to the battle hardened drill instructors about it was the quickest way to get even more crap stuffed in your ruck.

                It’s hard to believe Wilder is letting this be THE excuse. His costume?!? It’s really low class and lacking in dignity. It’s arguably the most pathetic thing I’ve heard in all my years of observing this sport. And I love women.

                My mother was a woman.
                Last edited by KO Digest; 02-26-2020, 12:16 PM.

                Comment

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