Lomachenko and Garcia: Lightning and Thunder

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BY TED SARES

Irish legend and former featherweight king Barry McGuigan takes it as far as you can go: “Lomachenko is one of the greatest fighters we have seen or ever will see,” he wrote in his regular weekly column in the (London) Mirror.

He adds, “There is a kind of machine-like quality that stands in marked contrast to the American tradition of great showmen. You look at Sugar Rays Robinson and Leonard, Muhammad Ali, Roy Jones and Floyd Mayweather – all different, yet connected by a flashy brilliance and sound technique. This glitzy element is completely absent in Lomachenko and Golovkin, who simply go after opponents with clinical savagery.”

Vasyl Lomachenko 11-1 (8) compiled a 396-1 record as an amateur and won two Olympic gold medals. After just seven professional fights, he was a two-weight division titlist. With his thrilling win over Jorge Linares on May 12 at Madison Square Garden, he has now won a third title in a third different division!

The Style

Perhaps the 30-year-old really doesn't have a style we have seen before though Hector Camacho (pre-Edwin Rosario) resonates. Lomachenko’s uncanny ability to fight from changing angles and circle his opponent delivering volleys of punishing punches and then continue the assault without letup is amazing. His ability to pivot and get his opponent confused is remarkable and he seldom gets hit though he can get marked up when he does. As for power, Roman Martinez and Jorge Linares were victimized differently but still victimized.

Also, the symbiosis between Loma and his father (a legendary coach in the Ukraine) is scary. At times, they seem to communicate by subtle facial expressions such as raised eyebrows. The results speak for themselves and, remember, we may be talking about the greatest amateur boxer who ever lived. Enjoy him while you can.

TSS writer Frank Lotierzo nails it: "What makes him [Loma] special is he has a fighting style along with great athleticism and a high boxing IQ that allows him to match up with most styles. He also has the best footwork in boxing and can pivot on a dime while standing in front of his opponents and make them miss, forcing them to punch from their blind side, leaving them open to his counters and flurries. And unlike most flashy boxers with great speed, instead of making you have to look for him, he comes to you and presents a target that appears to be right there - and most fighters will let their hands go when the target is that inviting…”

Garcia

If Loma is lightning, Garcia is thunder.

At 38-0, Mikey Garcia fights differently than Loma, but is just as effective. Garcia is a living, breathing boxing clinic and his fights should be shown in boxing gyms throughout the world as an example of how to blend fundamentals and execution. Whether it’s finding the right separation, timing, using his jab to set up combos, footwork, a solid defense, high ring IQ, and enough power to render opponents unconscious (e.g., Dejan Zlaticanin), he is as close to perfect as you can get. And like Loma, he breaks his opponents down with the same clinical savagery mentioned by Barry McGuigan. This humble 30-year-old Californian and WBC world Lightweight champion does just about everything right in the ring. Boxing is in his blood and it shows.

What’s Next?

Bob Arum says Lomachenko vs. Garcia would be a blockbuster on par with Mayweather-Pacquiao. But Arum has no interest in making the fight happen anytime soon.

Garcia will reportedly risk his belt against IBF world lightweight champion Robert Easter Jr. (21-0) on July 28 at the Staples Center in Los Angeles on Showtime. Lomachenko will reportedly fight Raymundo Beltran (35-7-1), the current WBO world lightweight champion, on Aug. 25 at the Inglewood Forum on ESPN. But these matches aren’t cast in concrete who knows how they will play out (although the outcome of the Loma-Beltran fight looks pretty clear)? A Linares vs. Garcia fight should not be ruled out and even Manny Pacquiao might find his way into the mix if he survives Lucas Matthysse.

One curious thing is now that the Ukrainian was exposed as being human by being knocked down by a visibly bigger Linares, many fickle fans are saying that Garcia will do the same and keep him down.

Don’t bet on it.

Ted Sares is one of the oldest active full power lifters in the world and is a four-time winner of the EPF’s Grand Master championship. A member of Ring 4’s Boxing Hall of Fame, he was recently cited by Hannibal Boxing as one of three “Must-Read” boxing writers.

Check out more boxing news on video at The Boxing Channel
 
I like Loma (who doesn't -- he's exciting), but Id have to take Garcia over him if the two ever fight. The match would be a boxer's fantasy match-up. Nice breakdown, Ted, on an what will be an interesting fight.
 
Mikey may be a bridge too far for Lomo. Garcia walks around at 175 and it doesn't seem like Lomo is bringing power up in weight.

Anyway why doesn't Lomo or his father man up and tell Arum to make the fight happen? It would be Lomo`s biggest purse by far.
 
Not sure Mikey walks around as a light heavyweight; 175.

Probably as a light middleweight; ~154.



Loma is a special talent but there’s not much he’s doing that has not been done before.

Public “ready, aim, fire” objectors please think before responding to that last comment.



James Toney (for one) walked around opponents and had a skill set that was, if not better, then as good as Loma’s.

His training methods are all pretty standard for top level Eastern Bloc amateur fighters too.



None of that means Loma is not brilliant.

He moved up and beat Linares which, to some extent, validates his win over Rigondeaux.

However, in moving up (and facing an average opponent) we saw some of the special effects drop off.



As such, Mikey is probably too much for him though.

And, that’s OK too.



As there’s probably no-one in Loma’s natural weight division that beats him.

He’s that good.



It’s taken a while, but finally USA promoters are meaningfully seeing the value in Eastern Bloc fighters and that is why some of their skills seem new, unique, and otherworldly to some boxing fans.

For those that have always been in touch with the Eastern Bloc amateur program, there is nothing new here in what Loma, Triple, Usyk, Beterbiev, and others from that part of the world do.

Still, none of means they’re not great boxers and fighters.




My God Teddy Atlas was a pain and woefully incorrect with much that he said in Beterbiev’s last fight; whereby Artur toyed with his opponent for 12 rounds - to get the work in - then stopped him in round 12.

Beterbiev, is probably the most ruthlessly efficient of all the new breed of Eastern Bloc fighters out there.

He is - in my opinion - one of the primary reasons Ward retired.




Cheers,

Storm.

:) :)
 
Can't say I've watched much of Garcia, which I should probably rectify.

Lomachenko certainly is something special. There's a lot of people who weren't around to see Pernell Whitaker, Dmitry Pirog, or other fighters who were dazzling and/or unconventional. So I understand how the kids these days are all going OMG goat sorcery and matrix about him.

I don't think many of us would consider Lomachenko untouchable. I was impressed, and happy for Linares, he managed to read Loma's shift to the outside. Timing him, pivoting anti-clockwise, leaning in and/or countering, was all nicely done, but not too surprising someone finally managed it. I will say Lomachenko will probably learn from the experience pretty fast.

I was more surprised at the number Vasily did on Guillermo Rigondeaux. I read the theory Rigo was used to having his way with orthodox fighters, relying on the lead hand for dominance, range, et c. Even if he never faced a southpaw of Loma's calibre, I find it hard to believe he would under-prepare for his opponent's stance, let alone his movement patterns. One of the few holes I had seen in Rigo's game was the famous low duck and pivot, but it had worked well for him to that point.

On a side note I hope the stereotype of the stiff, clinical stand-up fighter from Eastern Europe is starting to burst. Yes, it's convenient to use labels, but "Mexican style" is mostly a gimmick for Golovkin, just as Pirog was as Bloc as he was American in style. Just as the Cubans my coach told me to watch years ago, Rigo, Gamboa and Lara, are not exactly carbon copies of each other.

The Russians and Ukrainians really know their "holistic" training and conditioning. Kostya was the first one I saw playing Bloc ball with a baseball cap. I dare say he would've shown John Lewis a few tricks.

The agility work and puzzles Lomachenko gets from Kolosov and Flores no doubt push him as much as they round him out, much as the poor sods in Sandhurst Academy ard subjected to logic puzzles after a few days' trench digging.

Storm mentioned Beterbiev. I don't know what Atlas was saying but he is big and damned good.

Now I'll be off to watch some of Mikey's fights. And Beterbiev, and Pirog, and Tszyu... 😁
 
JohnnyTango said:
I like Loma (who doesn't -- he's exciting), but Id have to take Garcia over him if the two ever fight. The match would be a boxer's fantasy match-up. Nice breakdown, Ted, on an what will be an interesting fight.
Click to expand...

I'd take Loma but it's kind of a "pick 'em" thing. Clash of opposite styles if you can call what Loma does a style. Orlando Canizales and Camacho came close, especially Canizales.
 
Alan Swyer says via email , "This is a fight that should happen soon. However, like most fights that should take place, there will be stalling and interim bouts that will likely make it anticlimactic."

Larry Merchant adds,"well done. it's on everyone's mind right now."

Joe Bruno says,"Yes. I like LOMO over Garcia.."
 
Last edited:
SuperLight said:
Can't say I've watched much of Garcia, which I should probably rectify.

Lomachenko certainly is something special. There's a lot of people who weren't around to see Pernell Whitaker, Dmitry Pirog, or other fighters who were dazzling and/or unconventional. So I understand how the kids these days are all going OMG goat sorcery and matrix about him.

I don't think many of us would consider Lomachenko untouchable. I was impressed, and happy for Linares, he managed to read Loma's shift to the outside. Timing him, pivoting anti-clockwise, leaning in and/or countering, was all nicely done, but not too surprising someone finally managed it. I will say Lomachenko will probably learn from the experience pretty fast.

I was more surprised at the number Vasily did on Guillermo Rigondeaux. I read the theory Rigo was used to having his way with orthodox fighters, relying on the lead hand for dominance, range, et c. Even if he never faced a southpaw of Loma's calibre, I find it hard to believe he would under-prepare for his opponent's stance, let alone his movement patterns. One of the few holes I had seen in Rigo's game was the famous low duck and pivot, but it had worked well for him to that point.

On a side note I hope the stereotype of the stiff, clinical stand-up fighter from Eastern Europe is starting to burst. Yes, it's convenient to use labels, but "Mexican style" is mostly a gimmick for Golovkin, just as Pirog was as Bloc as he was American in style. Just as the Cubans my coach told me to watch years ago, Rigo, Gamboa and Lara, are not exactly carbon copies of each other.

The Russians and Ukrainians really know their "holistic" training and conditioning. Kostya was the first one I saw playing Bloc ball with a baseball cap. I dare say he would've shown John Lewis a few tricks.

The agility work and puzzles Lomachenko gets from Kolosov and Flores no doubt push him as much as they round him out, much as the poor sods in Sandhurst Academy ard subjected to logic puzzles after a few days' trench digging.

Storm mentioned Beterbiev. I don't know what Atlas was saying but he is big and damned good.

Now I'll be off to watch some of Mikey's fights. And Beterbiev, and Pirog, and Tszyu... 😁
Click to expand...

Good stuff. I've been a fan of Eastern Euros and have written about them way back. I love their "clinical savagery."
 
StormCentre said:
Not sure Mikey walks around as a light heavyweight; 175.

Probably as a light middleweight; ~154.



Loma is a special talent but there’s not much he’s doing that has not been done before.

Public “ready, aim, fire” objectors please think before responding to that last comment.



James Toney (for one) walked around opponents and had a skill set that was, if not better, then as good as Loma’s.

His training methods are all pretty standard for top level Eastern Bloc amateur fighters too.



None of that means Loma is not brilliant.

He moved up and beat Linares which, to some extent, validates his win over Rigondeaux.

However, in moving up (and facing an average opponent) we saw some of the special effects drop off.



As such, Mikey is probably too much for him though.

And, that’s OK too.



As there’s probably no-one in Loma’s natural weight division that beats him.

He’s that good.



It’s taken a while, but finally USA promoters are meaningfully seeing the value in Eastern Bloc fighters and that is why some of their skills seem new, unique, and otherworldly to some boxing fans.

For those that have always been in touch with the Eastern Bloc amateur program, there is nothing new here in what Loma, Triple, Usyk, Beterbiev, and others from that part of the world do.

Still, none of means they’re not great boxers and fighters.




My God Teddy Atlas was a pain and woefully incorrect with much that he said in Beterbiev’s last fight; whereby Artur toyed with his opponent for 12 rounds - to get the work in - then stopped him in round 12.

Beterbiev, is probably the most ruthlessly efficient of all the new breed of Eastern Bloc fighters out there.

He is - in my opinion - one of the primary reasons Ward retired.




Cheers,

Storm.

:) :)
Click to expand...


Not so sure I agree with you on Toney. He would fight off the ropes and use superb counters and not too many can do that off the ropes. The closest I have seen is Orlando Canizales.I'll try to post some links. Beterbiev has a very good corner including my great buddy Russ Anber who also is in Loma's corner.

The Klit's and Kostya opened the door and the rest came flooding in. But before them, there were good Russian fighters fighting in Japan under a special agreement.
 
Kid Blast said:
Not so sure I agree with you on Toney. He would fight off the ropes and use superb counters and not too many can do that off the ropes. The closest I have seen is Orlando Canizales.I'll try to post some links. Beterbiev has a very good corner including my great buddy Russ Anber who also is in Loma's corner.

The Klit's and Kostya opened the door and the rest came flooding in. But before them, there were good Russian fighters fighting in Japan under a special agreement.
Click to expand...

Here is a link to highlights of Orlando Canizales:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ogsB0zxKDI

You probably will have to copy and paste it, but you will see how close he and Loma are.
 
Links of Toney walking around fighters below.






Unlike Loma and Pacquaio; Toney didn’t always need to rush in and/or use decoys to do it.

James could easily transition smoothly from in-fighting across to the side and vice-versa; without pronouncing it and using big telegraphing steps/movements.

He also mastered Floyd's slip/slide and shoulder roll style before Floyd.

Loma can't do any of the slip/slide and shoulder roll style in serious competition and that style has virtually served both Floyd and Toney their entire careers.


Sure it's not essential that Loma can perform these feats; but Toney destroyed Holyfield with them and we all know that no-one has managed to meaningfully undo Floyd's shoulder roll.

It is an advanced style that leads to other advanced styles.



Loma is very, very, good, but he is not doing anything that is breathtakingly new.

He just puts it all together very well.

Pacquaio was very similar when he first hit the scene; probably with faster hands/feet.

Pacquaio and Martinez too used to walk around fighters similar to Loma; it’s an old lefty trick and not new.


Floyd Mayweather was better skilled than Loma, particularly when he was "Pretty Boy" Floyd and the fact that some people are in awe of Loma (but choose not to be the same way about Floyd) sometimes reveals the inconsistency in approval and also how little some fans know about the sport.



Floyd also, was walking and/or slipping around to the side of opponents (in an orthodox stance) and then punishing them from there, years ago. Many of his Pretty Boy fights show him do it, and he also did it to Gatti in spectacular fashion.

Tszyu also had his own beautiful way of getting around to the side of southpaws, and it was probably the most ruthlessly efficient that I have seen.



There is nothing new in Loma's game, but he is exceptionally good at it, and he puts it all together well.

He is susceptible to a good jab though; but then many fighters are.

None of this (what I say) denigrates him; just a statement of observational facts.



Toney’s inside game was better than Loma’s.

Way better.

Toney’s toughness and/or punch resistance is better than Loma’s.

Toney’s ability to fight exhausted is better than anyone’s.

Many other aspects of Toney’s game is comparable to, if not better than, Loma’s.



In fact, for my money, Toney is every bit as good as Loma; although their styles differ.
.


Roman Karmazin and Kostya Tszyu were really the first Eastern Bloc fighter that hit USA and marked the time when promoters started to take notice of Eastern Bloc fighters.

Karmazin beat up a few Golden Boy fighters, and we all know what Kostya Tszyu did.

From there the Klitscko brothers followed and (save for Lennox Lewis) filled a gap in the heavyweight secene.

After that, we got the guys that have brought the current situation.



Cheers,

Storm.

:) :)
 
StormCentre said:
Links of Toney walking around fighters below.






Unlike Loma and Pacquaio; Toney didn’t always need to rush in and/or use decoys to do it.

James could easily transition smoothly from in-fighting across to the side and vice-versa; without pronouncing it and using big telegraphing steps/movements.

He also mastered Floyd's slip/slide and shoulder roll style before Floyd.

Loma can't do any of the slip/slide and shoulder roll style in serious competition and that style has virtually served both Floyd and Toney their entire careers.


Sure it's not essential that Loma can perform these feats; but Toney destroyed Holyfield with them and we all know that no-one has managed to meaningfully undo Floyd's shoulder roll.

It is an advanced style that leads to other advanced styles.



Loma is very, very, good, but he is not doing anything that is breathtakingly new.

He just puts it all together very well.

Pacquaio was very similar when he first hit the scene; probably with faster hands/feet.

Pacquaio and Martinez too used to walk around fighters similar to Loma; it’s an old lefty trick and not new.


Floyd Mayweather was better skilled than Loma, particularly when he was "Pretty Boy" Floyd and the fact that some people are in awe of Loma (but choose not to be the same way about Floyd) sometimes reveals the inconsistency in approval and also how little some fans know about the sport.



Floyd also, was walking and/or slipping around to the side of opponents (in an orthodox stance) and then punishing them from there, years ago. Many of his Pretty Boy fights show him do it, and he also did it to Gatti in spectacular fashion.

Tszyu also had his own beautiful way of getting around to the side of southpaws, and it was probably the most ruthlessly efficient that I have seen.



There is nothing new in Loma's game, but he is exceptionally good at it, and he puts it all together well.

He is susceptible to a good jab though; but then many fighters are.

None of this (what I say) denigrates him; just a statement of observational facts.



Toney’s inside game was better than Loma’s.

Way better.

Toney’s toughness and/or punch resistance is better than Loma’s.

Toney’s ability to fight exhausted is better than anyone’s.

Many other aspects of Toney’s game is comparable to, if not better than, Loma’s.



In fact, for my money, Toney is every bit as good as Loma; although their styles differ.
.


Roman Karmazin and Kostya Tszyu were really the first Eastern Bloc fighter that hit USA and marked the time when promoters started to take notice of Eastern Bloc fighters.

Karmazin beat up a few Golden Boy fighters, and we all know what Kostya Tszyu did.

From there the Klitscko brothers followed and (save for Lennox Lewis) filled a gap in the heavyweight secene.

After that, we got the guys that have brought the current situation.



Cheers,

Storm.

:) :)
Click to expand...

Yes, good stuff that I agree with for the most part, but I don't share your affi8nity toward Toney. I loved the Toney who beat Ramon Garbey off the ropes and Vassily Jirov with great counters and super leveraged shots, but I did not much care for the Toney who got the crap kicked out of him against my good friend Dave Tiberi in 1992 in a fight I witnessed live in AC. See: http://www.thesweetscience.com/feature-articles/21996-the-toney-tiberi-fight-and-what-it-wrought and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB0BhucNDQI

He then went on a tear until losing to Jones and Montell Griffin in 94 and 95. He lost again to Griffin in 1996 and after beating Mike McCullum, he lost to unknown Drake Thaddzi.His win over Holyfield in 2003 was his best win of all but then things went downhill fast. Bottom line for me: he was too inconsistent and did not train properly. But he had great counter moves and used his shoulder very well and could fight off the ropes just about better than anyone I have ever seen except for maybe Jimmy Young.And he had pop and a granite chin. BUT, IMO, Toney is no Loma.

As for the Eastern Euro boxers, I like to think of myself as being one of the first writers to do work on that topic, I even did one for TSS
http://www.thesweetscience.com/feature-articles/42925-great-flood-eastern-european-boxers
http://www.thesweetscience.com/feature-articles/42925-great-flood-eastern-european-boxers

http://www.boxing.com/the_eastern_euro_surge.html

 
With all due respect I have been writing about Eastern Bloc fighters and their style here on this site for the last ~ 8 years.

Long before the current wave of popular Eastern Bloc fighters.

I have (personally) lived, eat, slept, and breathed the program and lifestyle; and I know quite a few that have had a significant part in teaching it within the Ukraine and Russia.



The Eastern Bloc amateur program - particularly in the area of strength and stamina - has always been miles ahead of most other countries amateur program.



But yes, you are one of the more recent writers to write and get excited about the Eastern Bloc fighters and their style.

The fact that you recently write about it also explains why you find Loma’s style so amazing and unique; when in fact it is the former not the latter.

That’s OK though.



I really only brought James up because you and/or others were impressed with how Loma walks around people and uses his footwork/skills like that.

James (and others) has been doing it for years; both when he’s in average and poor shape.



Connor Benn even did it with his last opponent on the Brook V Golovkin undercard.

The main reason it’s seems fantastic to spectators is that Loma often uses a 2 step procedure that accentuates the move.

However, that also telegraphs and makes it easier.

Toney, Floyd, and some others do it better and without telegraphing it.



Sometimes there’s a little bit more to how good someone is than their win/loss record.

Toney was inconsistent, but that can be a plus or a minus depending on how you look at it.

Initially, I thought it was a negative.

But then when I realized that he just fought no matter where/when he was in his life, regardless of whether he trained or not, it all made sense.

Based on that criteria he is astonishing.



Here is a guy that is truly ready to fight anytime; it don’t matter if he had a training camp.

Here is a guy, that - on skills alone - has fought from middleweight to heavyweight, and really, never been in elite shape.

Yet still, he has never been stopped and I am not sure he’s ever even been down.



Toney’s fight against Jirov is a case in point.

Remarkable fight, and Toney wasn’t even in decent shape.



I remember Manny Steward talking about James years ago, and his words couldn’t have been higher rated.

He said Toney would often wait around all day for 2 or 3 different fighter’s sessions where each session represented a rated fighter - sometimes a world champion - coming into to do their training; just to get extra sparring in.

Steward rated Toney as the toughest, deepest, and deadliest fighter to come out of his Kronk gym; and said words to the effect; “James never trains properly like other fighters but he can beat most people on instinct alone, but when he’s actually in some kind of shape he’s virtually unbeatable”.



Sure he’s had losses; but I think Toney is remarkable when you consider all the facts.

He takes risks like no other fighter.

His Old Skool skills are off the chart.

On a good day he would destroy Tiberi, but - agreed - Dave beat him on the night.

I don’t even think James cares about that because he knows how poor he was on that night compared to what he can and has been.



So, let’s see Loma fight unprepared, unfit, and in several weight divisions higher, before we start claiming he’s better.

Currently he is looking good fighting guys that don’t know what he’s doing.

Even if Loma beats Mikey Garcia (not a given) he still will not have successfully fought unprepared, unfit, and in several weight divisions higher in manner that equals Toney’s destruction of the legendary Holyfield.



Loma is very, very, good.

But he just got dropped in his first real upper weight class challenge.

I'm not sure that has never happened to Toney; and he lost to Tiberi.



Cheers,

Storm.

:) :)
 
If you read my last sentence I allow for Toney being dropped.

I was pretty sure it happened sometime; just couldn’t remember at the time.



Still, Loma has a way to go before meeting the Toney-criteria a marked out in my post #17.

For instance, Peter was by no means Toney’s first;
.
A) Opponent when Toney moved up in weight to another division.


B) First heavyweight fight.​



Whereas Linares was Loma’s first significant step up in weight and he got dropped.

Loma was in peak condition for Linares, and I doubt anyone knowledgeable would say Toney ever was after his middleweight days.



Cheers,

Storm.

:) :)
 
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